About EL&U usage, purpose, and comments

Question

I simply have to ask, and lash out (a tiny bit), about some of the comments and messages I have received on answers I've provided. I've had at least one moderator (I think?) and another senior member hounding me about my answers for the 8 days or so I've been on the ELU site. I will not name names as there is no point and it adds nothing to this discussion.

I have been scolded for improper citation. What is the proper citation form? I do try to cite all of my references when possible or relevant. However, citing a source does not somehow magically protect you from copyright laws. There is a fair use clause for copyrights. I mean come on. Who doesn't know that? And, 'aha!', Google it? Yes? Sigh.

I have been told that I've answered questions which really should not be answered for any of the following:

1. They could be looked up on Google.
2. They are direct dictionary requests.
3. They should be answered and/or asked on the ELL site vs the ELU site.

Fair enough on #2 and #3. But by this logic, especially #1, then what in God's name (I'm not religious by the way - that's emphatical on purpose and metaphorical) is a proper question to be answered? By the very nature of the limitation that it must be something you can't Google then virtually no question should be asked.

---

Listen up folks. I'm not being pedantic and I'm not trying to play a semantic word game. This is illogical. Plain as day. What it comes down to is senior members and mods get to decide what they think is "appropriate" and anyone else, no matter how virtuous their efforts, or intentions, is relegated to some "bastard" status for having answered an obviously ineligible question. My God. Virtually 100% of questions should be ineligible in that case, using this logic, or this vague, "well you have to use an educated guess", terminology (which is really just code for: be an elitist member) for determining a valid question or answer post.

You can find ANYTHING online. So what in the world is the purpose of virtually ANY question that is posted? Why not tell every user to go research it? Seriously, not just a dictionary request. But virtually anyone who is not an ELL type should be able to go online and find their answer...period.

Don't get me wrong. I've said in comments on ELU, and I truly mean it, I absolutely do not mind constructive criticism, nudges, helpful hints, etc... In fact, I welcome those most of the time (as evidenced by very helpful members such as Mari-Lou, English Student, Lawrence, Jim, Yosef Baskin, RaceYouAnytime, sumelic, Andrew Leach, ab2, etc - apologize if I didn't mention you). But this has gone far beyond that and it's very unnerving.

What I'm fed up with (and was even commenting to Mari-Lou about that has me ready to leave altogether) is this apparent favoritism and elitism that is going on.

---

So what exactly are the factors for determining what is an appropriate question? I've answered questions which have multiple upvotes and still gotten flack for that too! It appears to be obvious favoritism and I think it erodes the point of this site, the ability to help it's members who are asking questions, the ability to garner new, useful members, and it takes away a very valuable tool from the users (all of them - askers and answerers).

My observation and hypothesis thus far is that there aren't any rules. It's up to any of the senior members, or anyone in the senior member's circle of "elitist" friends, to decide if they think it's appropriate. I find that quite despicable to be honest; so should anyone else reading this if that is the truth.

I would very much welcome thoughts, ideas, experiences, and so on.

Answer 1

Think of meeting your significant other's extended family for the first time around a major holiday. You'd probably sit at the table and observe how some aunts, uncles, and cousins are more soft-spoken while others are more cantankerous; some are more uncouth while others are more polite; some are more amiable while others are more confrontational. But a few years later (assuming you're still dating), you've become used to everyone, and you realize this is just differently personalities crammed into the same room – no one is "playing favorites" and there is no "elitism" going on around the table. And who knows? By then, maybe someone who rubbed you the wrong way that first Christmas is the one you look forward to seeing most next Thanksgiving.

You've wisely refrained from naming names, but you're vague about your examples, so I don't know if you've been the victim of some pedantic tongue-wagging, or if you're simply misreading what was intended as helpful advice. As a new user, you'll probably get some of both, and it's easy to take things too personally and misinterpret the latter as the former. I'd suggest you give most people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are trying to be helpful, even when the comment is terse and seems to be blunt.

---

As for those things you mentioned specifically:

They could be looked up on Google or are direct dictionary requests.

If the bulk of our questions are too basic, that drives the better users away. Most of us are busy people, and none of the Stack Exchange sites are meant to be "Tier 1" support. Consequently, users shouldn't come here asking what a word means without checking a dictionary first, or come asking for a synonym without first scouring through a thesaurus. And when they have done such research, they should summarize what they found, and explain why they are still confused. Such questions are much more enjoyable to read, analyze, mull over, and tackle. (If you don't believe me, just mouse-over the upvote button on a question at the main site; it will say: This question shows research effort...)

They should be answered and/or asked on the ELL site vs the ELU site.

Such a comment might be directed at you, but there's a good chance it's meant to be a nudge for the OP as well. Most users who stumble on ELU are not aware of its target audience or of the availability of a site geared for learners.

---

Anyway, I hope that's helpful. Welcome to the table; please pass the mashed potatoes.

Answer 2

An appropriate question follows all the basic advice on the "Ask Question" page.

That is:

• It must be about the English language.
• There must be sufficient detail to allow a good answer to be provided.
• There must be some evidence of prior research so we don't simply repeat what the asker has already easily found (or could easily find). Not showing prior research simply wastes people's time here.

If it's about a problem encountered when learning English, which can often be deduced with terms like "Third Conditional", or the elementary omission of articles, then it may be better migrated to ELL.

I don't think we are doing users a disservice by assuming that they are intelligent enough to follow that advice, or to look around at how other questions have been asked and voted, or even to "visit the help center" since the link is presented. Or to read the tag info which pops up. Or even to have read the entire Tour (there's a badge for that, so whether someone has bothered to scroll to the bottom of that page is easily verified).

Questions which show effort are generally well-received, upvoted and answered well. Questions which show very little effort tend to attract poor answers which may not help the asker very much, let alone anyone else — and building a repository of knowledge is, after all, the aim of Stack Exchange. Or, a poor question will gain answers which don't actually give the answer the asker was looking for, because he hasn't been clear enough about what he was asking for.

There is no point in answering poor questions. Vote to close (or flag to close, if you have under 3k rep).

This site is primarily intended for "linguists, etymologists, and (serious) English language enthusiasts," as the Tour and the Help pages have it. Not every asker will fit into those categories: they have come here precisely because answers might be given by those people. But that description should provide some indication of the level of question which is expected: if you're expecting an answer about a specific point of English, then you need to state that specific point clearly. You need to follow all the help we can give through the system in order that your question is stated clearly.

The site description should also provide some indication of the level of answer which is expected. Some sites are very strict about removing one-line answers. Perhaps we should do more of that.

One issue we have is that most of the world's population has some ability in English, although most of that number are hardly even enthusiasts, far less linguists. So they find english.stackexchange.com and blithely type a barely coherent question which is eminently closeable under my three bullet points but is so bad that it can't even be migrated to ELL. The general policy is bluntly enunciated as "Don't migrate crap".

So there are rules, and they are stated. Perhaps they could be stated better (suggestions welcome¹). Perhaps there is too much latitude given to questions which don't follow them (which leads to inconsistency and trying to guess how the rules are applied).

My own view is that english.se should point to ELL, and that site can migrate to ELU good questions they receive which aren't related to learning the language.

---

¹ I wonder if "visit the help center" in the Ask Question box might be changed to "check your question is on topic here" since all the other help available is listed in a sidebar. That box can only be changed by staff. (And, just to note, links in the text count towards the total number of characters and we only have a couple of letters or so to spare.)

Answer 3

Everything, everything you said, is relatable, so very much, and I was you, three or four years back, and I left for almost a year, and returned when I overcame that initial awkwardness here, and I've stayed here ever since.

Consider this an initiation of sorts, like Josh commented.

Everyone who joins a Stack Exchange community (not just ELU), will definitely face some resistance at first, in some form or another, be it strongly worded comments, random unexplained downvotes, question closures, trolls, and whatnot.

It's unfortunate that some people go away because of that and that we lose so much potential contributions from them, but it is what happens when you allow a lot of people from all over the world to interact online.

I hope you get past this phase soon and stay here and turn out to be one of our best contributors of all time.

This is just an op-ed, not the party line here.

Answer 4

There are a few issues at play here. I'll highlight two: repository vs social factors, policy existence vs policy accessibility.

Repository vs social factors

Stack Exchange was set up as a reference repository. Although it has now expanded into segregated silos with subject-matter unrelated to its programmer-centric roots, those roots still permeate Stack Exchange, as is evident in the 'about us' link at the bottom of every Main and Meta page (emphasis, mine).

Stack Overflow is the largest online community for programmers to learn, share their knowledge and build their careers.

These roots help explain some of the peculiarities about Stack Exchange culture: questions must be answerable, answers must be specific, as well as backed by logical argument or relevant authority, with relevant citations linked for verifiability. The programmer's RTFM reflex is consistent with the loathing that questions of a 'general reference' nature attract.

At the other end of this spectrum, I've maintained that social factors are just as important. If everyone came here just for answers, well, there wouldn't be any. Likewise, if everyone came here just to answer, we'd have the same problem. Furthermore, if everyone was a passerby, community moderation would fall apart. Like it or not, the culture at EL&U is integral to the success of the site. And that culture depends on the people who stay for an extended term. It's vital to the health of the site to welcome new people, share with them why we do things the way we do, and what we value.

Being nice isn't just something tacked on. It's a core part of the broader Stack Exchange culture. Again, consistent with our programming roots, it's codified (you can find it in our help pages):

Whether you've come to ask questions, or to generously share what you know, remember that we’re all here to learn, together. Be welcoming and patient, especially with those who may not know everything you do. Oh, and bring your sense of humor. Just in case.

Policy existence vs policy accessibility

Jeff Atwood's flowchart is as good as it gets for pinning down an answer to when it's appropriate to answer.

As with many other policy matters, it's all there. If you can find it. It helps to have an eidetic memory, but even then, it can be like trying to find jewelry dropped on the beach. You know it's there, but the sand all looks the same.

Information on Stack Exchange can be tucked away in the most unlikely places. For example, EL&U uses the asterisk convention to mark intentional instances of bad writing (used for illustration, say). It records that convention at the bottom of the page called "What topics can I ask about here?"

Many things are decided by voting, then left to the community to implement (and to remember). You can often find stuff by searching the Meta pages. If it gets overwhelming, the regulars are usually quite happy to lend a hand if you ask nicely in the chat room. If all else fails, post a new question on Meta (note that you're still expected to show your research).

Conclusion

What it boils down to is this: EL&U is a human community, not just a utilitarian repository. It takes time to find your way around, but people are willing to help. As with most large communities, it's almost expected that there will be differences of opinion. If you feel that things are getting out of hand, flag down a moderator. We have some really good ones here at EL&U.

Contribute answers when you think they'll be useful to later visitors, or if the question piques your interest. For look-em-up questions, a useful rule of thumb is to ask whether the value is in reading a dictionary or in knowing where to look. Recall the anecdote about knowing which screw to turn.

PS: going back to the 'be nice' policy - with respect to being "emphatical on purpose" in your Meta post, could I ask that you express your frustrations in a different way? You might not be religious, but some on this site are.