Excessive number of fundamental questions

Question

More and more the site seems to be invaded by questions from users whose grasp of English is rudimentary at best, asking something (often indecipherable) about an unquestionably fundamental point of meaning or some basic use of the language, as opposed to subtle and debatable points of more sophisticated usage.

Frankly, although I like helping people learn English, this misuse is pushing me away from the site. I find my enthusiasm waning. Over and over, our more experienced users have to occupy themselves with simply informing the questioner that they should be using the ELL site.

I think we need to find a way to encourage people much more strongly and reliably to post their questions where they are most appropriate, rather than letting just anybody post just anything here. What do you think about this?

EDIT/ADDENDUM May 10, 2013:

First, thanks for the excellent discussion.

Second, Andrew Leach's link to a related question is great. I researched a good deal before posting, and still didn't find this particular question. J.R.'s answer there is worth reading for anyone interested in this discussion. (I haven't read KitFox's link yet, but I'm sure it's very good, and I'll go there in a minute; I can't go there at this moment, however, for fear of losing what I've just written.)

Third, Mitch suggests that I want "less newbie traffic," but I want to point out that this is not precisely what I'm asking for if it implies that I want fewer newbie users. The fact is, I'm perfectly happy with anyone using the site; the more users, the merrier. What troubles my sleep, however, is the high frequency of newbie questions.

So let me focus on the core of what I'm really asking here, to which Andrew Grimm and RegDwight have alluded: I feel we should have SOME type of bar to hurdle, gate to unlock, prerequisite to qualify, or filter to screen out inappropriate use. Call it what you will, characterize it any way you like, structure it any way you please... but this is a call to put SOMETHING in place to somehow stop the "junk," as Mitch calls it, from landing here in the first place.

Maybe it's not feasible, and maybe the majority opinion does not agree, but that's where my question lies: Can we and should we aim for that kind of modification to ELU?

And by the way, the answer might be as simple as renaming; how many newbie questions would be posted on a site called "Advanced Linguistic Analysis of English Syntax?" (I'm being facetious, of course, but I hope the hyperbole makes the point.)

Answer 1

tl;dr – This is a site design problem.

Most first-timers don't intend to abuse this site. They just want their question answered. They're as disappointed as anybody else when the answer is "already answered" or "off topic" or "too basic" or what have you.

I'm not suggesting that the site should start welcoming poor questions. The real problem is that the site fails to guide the first-timer. Some facts which should be red-crayon underlined for the first-timer, aren't. For example:

• Do your research.

• If you are still lost, ask here, and post your research so far.

• Ask expert-level questions. There are better sites for learning English.

If these were red-crayoned, both the community and the first-timer would appreciate it. So let's not blame the first-timer or the community. This is a site design problem.

Answer 2

It's a valid point. Over the year or so that I've been here, I've noted that

• most of the questions show that the questioner is not a native English speaker
• most of the questions are about nonexistent "rules" that people have been taught in school
• most of the questions that describe something in grammatical terms don't do it right

and, unfortunately,

• most of the answers are matters of opinion, either the answerer's or a usage critic's

This is unavoidable, I spose, since the stack.exchange model (and its software and procedures) was developed for social interaction in computing, and there are facts in computing, so things either work or they don't.

There are facts in language, too, but there are also so many nonfactual opinions about English stated with total Authority that it's hard to get at the facts. Also, facts like English phonemes or the English verb phrase or English negative polarity are not normally taught in Anglophone schools, so learning about them comes as something of a shock to native speakers. You can imagine how that plays with non-native speakers who've been exposed to the usual English BS.

Understand, we're not getting the majority of English learners here. Most Europeans, for instance, get the facts about English, and other languages, in their schools, and so do many Asians. My experience as a grammarian and teacher is that they understand English grammar much better than native speakers, because they've actually studied it beyond third grade, and paid attention. But in China or India or other Asian countries, for instance, ESL can often be pretty primitive.

I'm not sure what to do about it; I'm pretty sure the new ESL.SE is not the solution. It seems, if anything, to be less useful than ELU.SE. But I agree with John; my enthusiasm is flagging, too. I think it's the normal reaction of a teacher to a class where nobody ever learns anything -- you get bored trying and give up. Of course, this is not a class, and we're not dealing with the same people over and over again.

But that's what it feels like.

Answer 3

I haven't asked many questions because I know how to find the answers to most things that I'm curious about. For most things that I can't figure out myself, I worry that they're too esoteric or fuzzy, or perhaps better suited to a more specific SE like Linguistics or Writers and off-topic here: stuff like oddities of gender in demonyms, or why identical rhymes are inferior in English poetry.

Answer 4

Perhaps - and I may be downvoted for suggesting this, though I hope not - Perhaps the hope that beginner questions can be avoided on a site such as this is a vain one? After all, other Stack Exchange sites, though allegedly for expert Q and A, do receive and answer a fair number of beginner questions; They are effectively places for expert advice, and the expert discussion comes up as much in the answers to beginner questions as it does in the expert ones.

I worry that the OP has made the assumption that, unlike other stack exchange sites, ELU should only serve those who are already experts in its field, instead of nurturing those who will doubtlessly become experts in future.

I agree that having our experts' interest wane is a bad thing, but I suspect that that might be a problem of unrealistic expectations, rather than of gatekeeping; One cannot expect every question to be a challenge, just as one cannot expect to be able to answer every question.

In my mind, the ELL/ELU split seems like it should be made with tags, rather than by segregating the questions onto different sites. I can understand the expectation that the kind of 'English expertise' required to discuss beginner-level English and more experienced use should differ, but isn't that just a matter of degree? The subject matter is the same; All that differs is the amount of experience and understanding of it.

Answer 5

I fully agree with @JohnLawler 's observations. I more or less lost interest in the site and took a break from it because of the excessive zeal of a number of high-ranked users in deleting or ostentatiously turning their noses up at fundamental questions. The learners who ask these questions might inadvertently bring up an interesting issue that could be discussed and debated between more experienced contributors.