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Okay - I've found this meta but it could have been made easier. It's not on the main menu or list of communities and is hidden in 'help' which is in very small lettering at the top of the page.

Also, if a newbie doesn't know about metas or what they are, how would they find out except by accident?

I'm fairly new myself so I may be missing something obvious.

Could a pointer to metas be provided in a more obvious place?

Many thanks

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  1. It's not on the main menu or list of communities

    I present you with the list of communities:

    enter image description here

    It also used to be on the main menu, but was scraped in favor of being put on this list instead, as well as the Help menu.

  2. Could a pointer to metas be provided in a more obvious place?

    I present you with the front page:

    enter image description here

  3. is hidden in 'help'

    You will have to elaborate why that is "hiding" and not precisely the very "providing in the most obvious place" you're asking for.

    enter image description here

    Someone looks for help, they immediately find the meta. That is not a definition of "hiding" I am familiar with.

Also, if a newbie doesn't know about metas or what they are, how would they find out except by accident?

See above.

But now let me ask you this: why does a newbie need to find out? A newbie comes here to ask a question about English, not about Stack Exchange. They likely never even heard the words "Stack Exchange" or "meta". They are not interested in local politics. They are interested in doubt about word in language english.

Now, should they for some strange reason happen to ask a question about Stack Exchange, or politics, or philosophy, or photography, or gaming, their question will be migrated to the appropriate site. No harm done.

After all, that's what the word "newbie" means.

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  • It's easily found in the iPad app too.
    – Andrew Leach Mod
    Jul 14, 2015 at 13:04
  • I doubt you can remember what it was like to be a newbie. I doubt any newbies use that top button/menu at all. The others wouldn't know what meta was in the first place.
    – Araucaria - Him
    Jul 17, 2015 at 23:45
  • @Araucaria I doubt you can know whether I remember something or not. But that's beside the point. Your second sentence is more important. Newbies don't use any menus at all. They use the "Ask Question" link. And they can't even find that one, so they use the "Post Answer" one instead.
    – RegDwigнt
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:18
  • @RegDwigнt I can still doubt! More importantly, I agree with Chasly that it is not easy to navigate round this site. And a lot of members ask questions on the main site that they should ask here - but how would they know?
    – Araucaria - Him
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:22
  • And your third sentence is spot on. Newbies do not know or care what meta is. Precisely right. Nor do they have to. You don't need to know what a carburetor is to drive a car. You don't need to know what a mediant is to sing a song. You don't need to know how to plant a tomato to eat ketchup. You don't need to know how to find or use a longeron in order to find and use your seat on the plane. And you don't need to know how to find the meta in order to use an SE site. At the same time, the meta is much, much easier to find than a longeron, a mediant, or the carburetor.
    – RegDwigнt
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:24
  • @Araucaria: "a lot" is too strong. Some do. Very very few, actually. And then it gets migrated. That's what the non-newbies are here for. Many, many more people don't know how to use tags, or how to spell "English". But even that gets fixed by regulars. An occasional migration is very little overhead compared to that.
    – RegDwigнt
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:27
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    @chasly is a newbie (16 days). They are telling you that this aspect of the site is a pain in the butt for them. The response "well, I'm telling you you don't need it" doesn't seem very reasonable. I don't see the need for obscurantism here.
    – Araucaria - Him
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:29
  • @Aracauria: precisely right. Here's an actual newbie. Who says it should be in an "obvious place". Even though it's right there on the front page. Who says "it's not on the list of communities". Even though it is. That is not obscurantism on our part. That's blindness on their part. It's not something we can possibly fix. We just can't. But again, that's okay. Being observant is not a prerequisite for using this site. Having a question is. The rest is a well-oiled process. And by the way: I didn't quite tell them "you don't need it". I asked them why they needed it. And got no reply.
    – RegDwigнt
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:37
  • And this discussion is really fruitless until someone comes forth and defines what an "obvious place" is. Or explains how hiding help under "help" is hiding. What are your suggestions? What are OP's? Bring them on. We do not oppose progress. Good suggestions will be implemented. Where exactly do you want to have the link? Post a screeenshot with a freehand circle. These are always welcome, have always been, will always be.
    – RegDwigнt
    Jul 18, 2015 at 12:39
  • I'm the type of person who will explore, test things out, hunt for stuff, and ask a bunch of questions but not everyone has the free time nor the inclination. So a word in defence of the newcomer, the triangle/arrow is not exactly prominent, nor intuitive. To someone unfamiliar with SE and with platforms, social media sites etc. —who still exist—the tiny dark grey arrow does not pop out or suggest a menu will be revealed.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Jul 23, 2015 at 6:35
  • So how about changing the colour or the form of the arrow, making it a lighter grey, white, or the same colour as the site theme? Could we go back to the "old" top bar when it matched the rest of the theme, not this excessively jet black thing,? That way, with a more blended top bar, the menu arrows will visually pop out.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Jul 23, 2015 at 6:40

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