I'd like to request consideration for migration back to ELU for this question:


To address some of the noted concerns:

  1. No precise definition of "correct" exists. | This concern is overcome because results are measured against a "gold standard", and for any penalty the system creators are given the chance to flag a correction as a correct alternative which is manually reviewed by the judges.

  2. Other ELU meta discussion by senior members seem to support such a question. The idea of questions about grammar, syntax, correctness, even if such questions are of interest to linguists or serious language enthusiasts.

  3. This is not a request for resources and the question is not subjective. It can definitely be answered precisely. In the time since posting I have discovered an answer and would be glad to add it.

Thank you for taking a look -

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    You mention ELL: do you mean that literally, or do you mean ELU? – Dan Bron Dec 8 '16 at 20:50
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    @DanBron Probably ELU – Mitch Dec 8 '16 at 20:55
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    Lee, questions like yours are, for whatever arbitrary reason, like resource requests, are considered better handled on meta. Oh and it is a request about resources, namely research. Interesting question though., you'd think there's be a great (intellectual) market for such things. – Mitch Dec 8 '16 at 20:57
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    Quoting Dan Bron: "resource requests have no definitive, right, or even better answer...they devolve into popularity contests". This question meets none of those criteria. It's a precise, objective question. Not to mention @Mitch, you said you were not opposed to questions like this on main. – whitneyland Dec 9 '16 at 0:21
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    @LeeWhitney Hey Lee. That does definitely sound like something I'd say! Can you point me towards where I said it? – Dan Bron Dec 9 '16 at 0:22
  • Sure. Yours is the sixth comment down, Mitch's is the second comment. meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/9443/… – whitneyland Dec 9 '16 at 0:26
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    @LeeWhitney Thank you! – Dan Bron Dec 9 '16 at 0:33
  • By the way, where do the rules say my question is not allowed on main? I only knew to look here and checked before posting: english.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask – whitneyland Dec 9 '16 at 0:35
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    @LeeWhitney: They don't. Migrating "resource requests" to Meta is just an unofficial convention that's grown up on this site over the years, like a weed. (I think it's pointless.) – herisson Dec 9 '16 at 3:59
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    Well, then why are we all wasting time on this when the rules/docs could be updated to reflect this convention? For years, allowing people to keep posting these questions and going through extra work to moderate them? My question should be allowed or the docs should be updated. – whitneyland Dec 9 '16 at 5:10
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    I've been itching to ask an orthogonal question, something to the effect of "what is the purpose of teaching English grammar to native English speakers?" It would almost certainly be closed as "too broad", "answers will be based on personal opinion", or some such. That aside, though, it seems the answer that would fit your question is "yes, and here it is", followed by a list of research papers (the "resources", even though the resource lists here on Meta ELU are quite different in character than a list of research projects/papers). Did you have something else in mind? – JEL Dec 9 '16 at 7:04
  • Yes JEL, and not even a comprehensive list, actually it would be great just to mention the latest paper that has good citations. The one paper would give people all they need to know the where to find more. – whitneyland Dec 9 '16 at 13:24
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    I don't know that it suits your quest but, as you say, the citation list might prove helpful: Strategic Error as Style: Finessing the Grammar Checker. It looks as if the dissertation will not be available until 2018, but correspondence with the author might, again, prove helpful. Otherwise, some more in this list at Google Scholar seem to the point, especially, e.g., "Grammar Checkers Do Not Work". – JEL Dec 9 '16 at 20:53
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    I upvoted because I support the suggestion to update the site's explanation of what types of questions belong where—and in particular to codify the convention that requests for resources belong on Meta rather than on the main site. – Sven Yargs Dec 9 '16 at 22:03
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    @SvenYargs I'd prefer we codify that they don't belong on Meta! – curiousdannii Dec 10 '16 at 0:29

The question as it is stated is not about English.

  • If intended to be limited only to the effectiveness of English automated grammar checking tools, then it should be edited to clarify, and I agree it would make sense to have it on the main site.

  • If intended to be about the effectiveness of automated grammar checking tools for all (or multiple) languages, suggest it be asked at Linguistics.

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    You realize, of course, that if you insisted on a similar level of precision in question asking from posters of single-word requests, you'd have to close or move hundreds of questions that ask for "a word that means xxxxxxxx" instead of for "an English word that means xxxxxxxx." Normally we assume that a question that asks about or refers to "grammar" on EL&U is referring specifically to English grammar. – Sven Yargs Dec 9 '16 at 22:07
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    @SvenYargs Granted, but this is not a question about a particular element of the language. It's a request for research results, and that might not be language-specific. Rather than assuming I want to know. – MetaEd Dec 9 '16 at 22:54
  • @MetaEd Sold. Agreed. Done! – whitneyland Dec 10 '16 at 0:00

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